Religion and Respect

Before expressing my personal opinion, I want to share a news item. I don’t know how many national dailies featured this news. But it is this news that inspired me to write this post.

Mon, Sep 8 2008 :- Christian organizations have demanded action against activists of the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) and Bajrang Dal who misbehaved with two nuns at the Durg station on Friday. The two nuns, carrying three babies with them, were on their way to Bhopal on the Chhattisgarh Express when the activists forced them to get off the train at the station. The nuns, of the Mother Teresa Missionaries of Charity, were handed over to the railway police when they refused to answer questions on the babies. Later, the nuns told the railway police that they are carrying the babies after taking consent from their parents. The parents were very poor and could not take care of the infants properly, the nuns told the police. The babies were being taken to an ashram for children in Bhopal. Christian organisations have conveyed their dissent to Governor E.S.L. Narasimhan and have demanded action against the VHP, Bajrang Dal activists.

Please read the more detailed news here. Somehow there is no update available in local newspapers since that day.

Its obvious that this act was an after effect of riots and violence in Orissa. Otherwise my city is a very peaceful place with quite good religious harmony. We even have a place where there is a temple, a mosque and a church side by side. I understand that religious conversion is a very complex and sensitive social issue and everything is not black & white. There are shades of grey like those mentioned in this article. But the issue has managed to rear its ugly head from time to time in India as another political tool and yet another reason for violence in the name of religion. I also know that the Constitution of India gives the freedom of religion and the right to propagate faith to its people. And I do agree that the right to propagate one’s religion does not give a right to convert any other person to that religion with any fraud, intimidation and enticement. My post doesn’t discuss the righteousness of religious conversion. My question is that whatever be the reason, what gives these Hindu fundamentalists the right to manhandle two women just because they are nuns? Maybe I’m little biased in thinking (or maybe I’m not that skeptical) that Missionaries of Charities can’t be involved in anything illegal regarding taking orphans or illegitimate infants or poor children to their ashrams for better upbringing and a better life. And also I believe that there is no scam going on. Even if there is, I see no justification of the VHP and Bajrang Dal activists’ treatment of two women and the infants. I don’t see what is the big deal if the infants are “converted” and given food to eat and clothes to wear? Whatever principles and beliefs these Hindu fundamentalists stand for, doesn’t it include respect for women? Isn’t Shakti like one of core beliefs of Hinduism? Or do you think that women of other religion are not worth of our respect, Mr. Praveen Togadia and Mr. Prakash Sharma ? The Bajrang Dal’s slogan is “service, safety, and culture.” So isn’t treating another human with respect and dignity that he or she deserves; a part of our culture? Why is there differential treatment on the basis of religion? Oh sorry! I forgot that these guys harass Hindu women too.. for example on Valentine’s Day. I don’t care who is right or wrong but the behavior of these religious zealots is totally shameful and unjustified. I think the leaders of such groups should apologize to the wronged “women” on behalf of their uncontrolled herd of hypocrites.

Extra reading : An excellent write up on the topic of “Right to freedom of Religion vs Religious Conversion”


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44 thoughts on “Religion and Respect

  1. Sometimes I wonder, is the education we received very different from what these people did? What caused them to reach religious fanatism? What makes them different from the terrorist groups like SIMI or IM? They harass people, burn schools and orphanages, kill people from other communities in the name of religion.Don’t they like the terror outfits have a misplaced sense of self-righteousness?! I just wonder…

    Reema: U have raised some very good questions. The attitude of any type of fundamentalists does seem like a misplaced sense of self righteousness but I see no reason why it should lead to intolerance and violence!

  2. While I agree what the VHP and Bajrang Dal has done is wrong and there can be no justification for it, I think you were hasty is giving clean chit to the nuns in question. Not that I claim otherwise, but I found it prejudiced. Although we should assume innocence until the guilt is proven, we should not hasten to proclaim innocence either. While you don’t see the “big deal” if these infants are converted, I can’t see the point why they had to be converted in the first place.

    Reema: Welcome to my blog! In giving a “clean chit” I have just expressed my personal opinion. It may be prejudiced and I think I have mentioned that in the post too!! And it doesnt matter because my point is the disrespect shown towards women not any other issue. Even if the nuns are not innocent, it doesnt give any right to anyone to misbehave with them because they are women first nuns later. Thats why conversion is the secondary issue or no issue at all for me. Keep visiting.

  3. Most of these people who say they are hardcore followers of their religion, don’t understand the meaning of religion and the meaning of their religion in the first place, its just an excuse to justify their acts they give to us and their conscience, I guess. Religions needs to be banned in the world….

    Reema: Yes as I’ve said earlier there is no point of religion if all it does is to make us misbehave, mistreat and kill.

  4. You are right, the base of Hinduism is Shakti, or the Power and the Personified form is a Woman. A Person has to be respected no matter what religion he/she belongs to and when it comes to a Woman you go one step higher because Woman are the real reason behind the survival of Human race. Imagine a world with no Women there will be no Womb to carry the future. But these dal activists are just blind followers of their leaders who do things for political or saddistic reason in the name of religion. They will have to be punished for their act!

    Reema: An apology must be made by these so called leaders!

  5. Anything seems to be possible here in India in the ‘name of God’. We are all dreaming of India turning out to be a developed nation once. After all the recent incidents, I guess it would remain only as a dream.

    Our country has the worst judiciary system. Anyone can get away with anything here, be it a politician, a filmstar or a filthy rich ‘common man’. Gone are the days when we were supposed to respect law. According to me, its time we get petrified of the law.

    Nice post.

    Reema: India has to rise above the communal and regional differences to become a developed nation. As long we keep fighting within ourselves, we can never progress. Thanks!

  6. I know, and I believe, that all religious people have no qualms about doing unethical things, like using a little coercion or pressure, if it would do their house (like Church) some good. Of course, conversions are a legitimate activity if no force is used.
    The Hindu zealots are as revolting as any other.
    Nice post.

    Reema: I think religion itself causes unethical practices. Its a kind of paradox. Thanks!

  7. Why wouldnt the fanatics start their own mission and work on the upliftment of the poor people?
    They wouldn’t because all they care is to bring chaos to the country and talk nonsense.

    I dont see any thing wrong in people getting converted. If the missionaries are working with the poor people and they convert themselves into Christianity whats the big deal?

    If we check history, the Christians in Kerala was not born one fine day with the religion (well its 2000 years old). We got converted to Christianity 2000 year back when St Thomas came to India.

    Thank God, that then we had a open culture where such fanatics did not exist.

    Else the media/politicians/fanatics would be blaming St Thomas for forceful conversions.

    Reema: There is nothing wrong with conversion as long its not forced or induced by allurement. If you read the links you will see that why this has recently become an issue of grave concern and so much controversy. But whatever be the topic of difference, there are somethings which one should never do like mistreat women.

  8. I don’t understand religion and I don’t understand such people. Religion is one human invention which fail to amuse me. Thinking about the incidence, if we see a nun carrying a baby, the immediate reaction is a smile. Somehow, the idea of “Oh my God! The children are going to be converted and this will reduce the count of Hindus on Earth” won’t even cross my mind.
    How does it matter if the child is converted or not? Even if there is a hint of foul play on the part of the Church, won’t the child pray as Christians do, as he grows up in that environment?
    p.s. I wonder what is the salary of a Bajarang Dal activist? They must be getting nice packages?

    Reema: Very good example!! At what point of life do some people start thinking in such a twisted way? Do they have that innately or is it induced in them? We have not enough religion in us that teaches us to be tolerant or atleast be respectful. Its fine to protest against religious conversion but its totally different to be violent about it! Good question..I wonder if these activists do this in part time or is it their full time job?

  9. Politically aided what-evers don’t do anything because they want to help improve the community. On the contrary, they want to help themselves to a nice wad of cash at the expense of the community. Religion is just a medium to achieve this goal. Damn these people who have misunderstood religions to hell. I am not talking only about Hindus here. But all religious fanatics. Yes, there are many in each religion. Hard to believe but true.

    Religious freedom is, as you said a very sensitive and complex topic. It is something similar to the equality of men and women. Everyone agrees that there should be equality, but not many of them want to follow it. Our world is full of hypocrites. Will this ever end?

    Reema: Yes of course there are fanatics in every religion. Religion is an obsession for some and it causes fanaticism. No I think religious freedom is similar to equality of men and women but in a different way than what u said. Because people who dont follow it don’t really believe in it…be it any freedom of religion or equality. Maybe some centuries or millenniums later, all this hypocrisy will end!

  10. God is for everyone. Religion is for fights and fanatics. Law is for the rich and powerful ones.

    Religion is just something Man made up, to save him in times of despair and worry. Something they cling onto for all the wrong reasons.

    You see people fight in the name of religion, spend millions in the name of religion…but never “help a needy” in the name of religion. Then, it’s always the question of religionS !!

    Religious people, I’d say, are the greatest hypocrites.

    Reema: I would say religious zealots are the greatest hypocrites.

  11. Hmmm…Whatever happened or is happening in such cases isn’t remotely related to religion. It is all about power & politics.

    Politicians always know that religion is our weak point and that’s why they keep touching it to be in power.

    They have very convienent defintion of religion & it keeps changing with their need & drive to survive.

    What these people don’t understand is that in their fight to survive they are pushing us back in old times.

    Reema: yes religion among all other things is the biggest political tool. But people are also at fault who allow such “leaders” to mislead them.

  12. Reema, nice to know your views on this. I have similar feelings and plenty of anger against religious zealots! And these zealots always find it convenient to target the weaker sex. They can easily bully them. As for the VHP and BD, I think now they have become paranoic and think all christians are converting everyone! Today there is news that even in Tamil Nadu there is violence agaisnt christians. There is no doubt in my mind that it is all being organised at the party level. Shame on them.

    Reema: I’m glad to know u share my views. Of course some political funding and management is behind this organized violence against Christians just because elections are coming.

  13. Well, I support VHP and Bajrang Dal ..

    I am firmly against religious conversion .. U cant carry out conversion by showing them greed,money,food and comfort .. America-London are better place to live than India but not every india becomes american .. because e love India irrespctive of the struggles here .. That’s same with our religion .. If u cant be loyal to what u r born with, u cant be loyal to anything in this world ..

    In A’bad, I hv seen VHP-Bajrand dal people helping at the general hospitals in a large number when thre was an earthquake or flood .. I hv seen them donating blood .. I firmly supported them when they destroyed MF Hussain’s property which was full of naked and derogatory paintings of hindu Gods .. VHP was the one who single-handedly helped poor hindus who were residing in muslim areas during riots .. they did save our asses ..

    If we will not respect/save our religion, who will save it?? .. But reading all those comments from you all, I can say that and can agree to the comment of supreme court judge that this country has no future .. Really, we hindus r meant for becoming slaves .. first there were moguls then british and now it’s all psude-secularists like you who come out with all fire and power to defame and abuse hindu organization but will never utter a word about simi .. U’ll condemn post godhra riots but never speak a sentence for 59 men who were burnt alive by musllims .. U will worry about those 2 nuns but will never write a post when VHP leader who was working for the welfare of tribal people in orrisa was killed by christian missionarries becaUSE HE was trying to reconvert those hindus who became christians .. u will justify muslim’s retaliation after babri mosque demolition but u’ll defame hindus for their retaliation after godhra.. u tell me what was the bigger and hinious crime?? .. Demo;ition by hindus of a structure which was never used by muslims as their prayer place called babri mosque or 59 men.women, children burnt alive in a train by mob of 2000 muslims ..

    if we cant save our religion, who will save it???

    Reema: I think u being a regular reader of my blog are unfair in saying that I justify Muslim’s retaliation. If you are saying I’m defaming Hindus for their retaliation then are you trying to say that they are justified in manhandling women to save our religion? Then I would say such a religion which allows women to be treated badly should die out. As for the killed VHP leader, yes I dont feel any need to raise a hue and cry about it…because I feel instead of reconversion, there are a lot of other things he or any other protector of Hinduism could have done for welfare of those people or any where else in India. And is it proved that he was killed by Christians? I dont justify his killing but I condemn the violence that ensued. As for saving any religion be it Christianity ( by conversion) or Hinduism (by retaliation) or Islam (by jihad) I dont see any point in having any religion in first place so saving any is something I dont support or care about. Thats my view of course.
    And you are so wrong in judging a person or calling a person pseudo secularist by the topic on which he/she posts and the topic he/she doesnt. If I dont write about SIMI it doesnt mean I support them or anything!!! If I dont write about dowry or abuse it doesnt mean I dont support them! Likewise with SIMI. And if you read my post and comment you will see I have not given religious conversion a clean chit. My post’s whole point is about the misbehavior of these protectors of Hinduism with “women” (even if they r nuns) not about conversion. And yes I m worried about two nuns because I care for women’s respect even if thousands of Hindu protectors don’t.

  14. If the authorities or activists can’t fix or do anything with regards to the epidemic of abandonment’s, why are they after people who are doing a very noble cause? They should be ashamed of themselves, prying the harmless and innocent people, who indeed is just trying to make the world a better place.

    Reema: Actually its not the nuns…its about the “women” who by the way in that incident were nuns. But what u said is true too.

  15. Kill ’em all! Hang them in the streets and make an example! er… or something more non-violent! But this has got to stop at some point, right?

    Reema: Killing isn’t the solution! Respect for women has to be instilled since childhood so that the future generation is better.

  16. Reema,

    Up front I need to say that I don’t care for God, religion or any such shit. People should do what they like and not ram their views down other people’s throats.

    Despite the title of the post, I think your post is primarily about how women were treated. But I also think it is safe to say that you have never ‘experienced’ someone else’s efforts to proselytise and convert. You probably have not seen how children are systematically ‘used’ in this context. If you have different experience, please ignore the last 2 lines else see one example here:

    http:// laviequotidienne.wordpress.com/2007/11/03/gods-salesmen/

    Except Hinduism and Judaism, where one is born Hindu or Jewish, nearly all religions proselytise and convert people, as part of religious duties. I work from home and I cannot begin to tell you how many times my work is interrupted by people coming to give me leaflets about world peace and how it can be achieved through Christianity. Frankly in the UK, esp in London, where I live, and which lived in the shadow of IRA’s terrorism for years, this is a laughable claim.

    At some point, their “right” to be respected – never mind they are on my property without permission – is trampling my right to work in peace. What were you saying about ‘respect’? Does it only work one way?

    I have half a mind to put a sign on my door saying ‘Proselytisers, if you knock, I will remind you you are on my property and then knock the living daylights out of you.’ But my neighbours are practising Christians and out of ‘respect’ for their religious choices, I do not do any such thing.

    Now what were you saying about ‘respect’?

    Reema: “Despite the title of the post, I think your post is primarily about how women were treated.” Actually my title is in relation with the observation that how the men found it justifiable to mistreat some women just because of a prejudice against a religion. Yes I have never experienced someone else’s efforts to proselytize. I know that Christianity and Islam has mentioned about growing one’s kinds i.e. conversion but there could have been other ways to stop them or protest other than being violent about it and. Of course one’s right ends where other’s begins. If others (Christians) are not showing respect to your religious choice but still u did, then its commendable and expected behaviour from a educated sensible person. I hope u r not justifying the act of disrespect or “retaliation” by giving that example, especially the last sentence in ur comment. 🙂
    On a lighter note, your example reminds me of the quote “pani me rehkar magarmachh se bair nahi karte” 😛

  17. Reema

    Another thing. Many multicultural societies have made the mistake of having clear double standards. Minorities seem to have a greater right to ‘respect’ than others, who are routinely made to feel guilty. This is true in India, and true in the UK.

    While one can say anything about Christians in the UK, saying anything about Islam is ‘incitement of hatred’. While black people (in this instance, it was the Jackson brother who was in Celeb Big Brother with Shilpa Shetty) can call some white people “white trash”, a white person better not be seen anything nearly as ‘collectively rubbishing’ about black people.

    In the long run, this appeasement – a word that has never had any respect in societal and political discourses – does not fly. It causes resentment and anger and an unstable society.

    Reema: Hmm yes what u said is correct. An angry and unstable society which in its frenzied state forgets the basic rules of behavior.

  18. @ Doc:

    Yes, it is I, who said that. 😉

    I am finding myself citing this ditty again and again these days:

    No matter what we are and who,
    Some duties everyone must do.
    A poet puts aside his wreath
    To wash his face and brush his teeth,
    And even Earls Must comb their curls,
    And even Kings Have underthings.

  19. If u’re lamenting about the man-handled women, then it is a good post to bring about some awareness about the male-dominated soceity. If u’re saying about the brutish attitude off the activists, then i’d say that good and bad is a part of every religion. the humble people who do good put their efforts under carpet to avoid attention and go unnoticed. the bad ones make news within no time and defame the good part.

    There are people who follow Hinduism strictly in spite of the rigorous nature of the religion in its base form. music, painting, folklore, dance and other arts associated with it receive widespread patronage and participation.
    There are people who have a good cause in mind and start off groups like VHP and the like. but the name and goodwill is spoiled by a single incident. so what will u think while considering the nature of the religion? Pro-social or anti-social?

    The bad ppl donning the mask of religious groups are nothing short of terrorists with lower level of sophistication but equal in magnitude wrt the hatred drawn… i think they too shud be given my special needle treatment… 😛

    Reema: Yes I’m protesting against not lamenting about the misbehavior of men. 🙂 Thanks. “but the name and goodwill is spoiled by a single incident.” Not one incident there have been many!! Religion is the creator of anti social activities.

  20. you are not at all biased on this aspect …..its a very sorry state of affairs which we are witnessing
    i do strongly stand by religion but when it comes to fanaticism….not even religion stands good for me………and what matters at the end of the day is an individual choice…..why cant we have the right to choose the religion we want to follow and who the hell has given the right to these untamed beasts ( bajrang dal etc) to impose restrictions on us?
    and lets all live upto the fact that humanity is the only religion created by the almighty for all of us…..and these dumb good for nothing parasites are violating its rules…..so when you cant really respect god….how can you even be expected to respect humans???

    Reema: Thanks for sharing your views.

  21. In my comment, ‘You’ does not point at you Reema .. ‘You’ means the whole society of pseudo-secularists who are eagerly waiting for something to happen so that they can come out of their shelter and defame and abuse hindus from all corners .. Not VHP-Bajrang Dal but these pseudo-seculars are dividing us on a religion basis and they r making the animosity between hindu-muslim-christian wider, wider and more wider .. Ofcourse u r not pseudo-secular and I did not mean you in the first case ..

    I was a staunch secularist but after godhra incident, the way in which the very root incident of godhra train burning was ignored and post-godhra riots were blown out of proportion just because it involved killings of minority .. this incident has made me communal if not fanatic .. If secular in India means to defame hindus, hindu religion, hindu organization and to appease muslims and give them all undue credits for no reason then I dont want to be a secular .. I will be more than happy to be called Fanatic .. I’m proud of it ..

    Reema: Thanks for the clarification.

  22. Your post is strongly against misbehavior of VHP/Bajrang Dal to theit treatment of nuns. I agree no matter what teh reason be (assuming nuns were at fault), there is no justification to meeting out such treatment to women.

    This was the same argument I gave to my mother years ago when I was in class 8. I said, as long as they are tending to poor they have right to convert.

    But, with age and experience, my thoughts have altered a little. Before I go on, I must say that I detest any fanatic organisation like Bajrang Dal/ VHP. I don’t care if I am one of the last Hindus around or I become a minority. But I have witnessed systematic conversion of poor and Bangladesi immigrants. It is not done out of choice. You would not choose hunger over religion. For sheer survival, hordes of colonies convert. Why do do-good actvities be combined with condition of conversion of religion? If its by will, I am all for it. Worse part is, religion has becoem a mockery. When Hindu gfantics arrive, they instill fear of heaven and God, throw some more money and people are converted. I have begun to hate all this conversion business that is not selfless.

    Here is what I wrote about conversion of religion a year back:

    http://alchemistpoonam.wordpress.com/2007/06/18/we-need-a-big-change-religion/

    Reema: Thats exactly why I said that religious conversion or re-conversion is a complex issue and its not the point of my post.

  23. @Poonam:

    ** I don’t care if I am one of the last Hindus around or I become a minority. **

    Till today, i was a proud Hindu .. Now after reading it, I must say that I’m really ashamed to be a part of hindu religion where we have so many intellectual and sophisticated people like you are present who even dont give a damn about their religion with which they were born with ..

    Are there any Christian missionary or Islam Maulwee reading this blog ?? .. Here is one of ur cake .. I’m ready to get converted to any other religion .. I dont wanna be a hindu now .. At least other religion people hv respect for their religion ..

  24. @Soham: I am proud of my religion. But I am not a fanatic. I certainly don’t have to prove my regard to my religion to any self-professed custodians of religion like you. Religion is within me, it does not define my identity, only outlook.

    And you should have read my comment in entirety before writing such irresponsible, silly remarks. But I guess there are many like you, we have no choice to ignore silly fellows. But that does not mean we can’t act when required to.

    You would certainly not get any further response from me, no matter how much you stoop while commenting.

  25. @Soham

    I am so glad I found you, we have been recruiting staunch devotees of our religion all over India and world and while people might call you fanatic, we know that is not the case.

    Don\’t be ashamed of our religion or try to change your religion. Infact, you can do you bit to save it.

    If you want to save the religion, where at some stage you might have to put your life on stake, please reply to this comment and we will get to work.

  26. I am always proud to be a Hindu. But after seeing all this, I just wondering what our religion taught to these guys….. to love every creature on earth or to kill other religion people. I am very ashamed to see somebody from my religion killing and abusing other people in the name of religion.

    Reema: yes I assume any religion should first instill respectful and correct behaviour in its followers.

  27. @Poonam:

    Calm Down Calm Down .. I never said I’m a custodian of hindu religion .. I just dont like any tom,dick and harry abusing and defaming our religion .. And ofcourse you have not abused hindus .. So I hv got no complaints from urside and even if I hv, u would not give a damn about it, right??? .. Ha ha ha ..

    But yeah, I felt disappointed when u said ke u wouldn’t care if u r one of the last Hindus around or u become a minority….

    So please calm down .. I’m sorry if I hv hurt ur feelings .. It’s fun ignoring silly fellows like me but it will be more fun if u dont ignore me !! .. LOL !!

  28. @Staunch Hindu

    Dude .. I wouldn’t call myself a staunch hindu .. yes, i’m pro-hindu ..

    But let me clarify, pro-hindu does not mean justifying or supporting killings of innocent muslims/christians .. I’m against that ..

    But yeah, whenever there is an appeasement of minority for votebank or if I’m provoked on a religion basis, I firmly suport retaliation and that too in a very strict manner ..

    so contact me if you want to but keep all these in ur mind

  29. Religion has no longer the meaning it is supposed to have.

    People are using the word ‘Religion’ to do things, which they coould not have done if the Religious Umbrella did not exist.

    Reema: Yes, religion has given birth to many bad activities.

  30. I feel as a nation we should educate the our people the right perception of the religion. Hinduism itself explains that men feared rains thus worshipped rain gods, sun thus sungod..and so goes the endless list. Im a hindu and I love my religion. I just wanted to say that more than a religion it is a culture that evolved over the years and more than fighting in the names of the Gods it just intended man to evolve as a better human being. Jesus & Mohammed who propogated the respective religion also intended just the same! to evolve men as better, peaceful human beings! It is sheer stupidity to fight in their names when we forget their principles and hurt them! after all atrocities i still love my religion coz its never my religion that prompted neone to do nething nor will anyone’s religion prompt neone to kill fellow beings! Its ignorance of ones religion, principles and values that leads oneself into violence!

    Reema: Welcome to my blog! “Its ignorance of ones religion, principles and values that leads oneself into violence!” Very true!! But I think at some points some religions are wrong in asking their followers to gather more men into their religion i.e. to convert them. Keep visiting!

  31. Ban the word religion …
    people do all kinds of bullshit in the name of that..
    Really do we need something which makes the place so cruel to live..
    i dont want to add anything else. .everything has already been discussed here.

    Reema: Yes as I said ther eis no point of religion in the first place.

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    Reema: Thanks!!

  33. There are only 160000 Christians in Khandmal. Yet, there are more than 200000 sites on the Net that tell tales of their agony. Destruction of churches is portrayed as if they were all big Basilicas vandalised. That the raped nun’s vagina showed only semen inside and no internal or external injury to it is never mentioned. One is reminded of the earlier story of a 35 year old Orissa nun that alleged rape inside a moving car, some time ago! One might also compare it all with the large number of nun abuse cases from within, from Kerala.

    I wish the Mallu priests and nuns that sit in the well-fed comfort of their nunneries and seminaries, and type away the anti-Indian propaganda on Internet sites, would realise the harm that they are doing to their country. The foreigners only laugh at you, eventually! The Wikipedia propaganda is an example. Individual articles are posted there about each incident of Hindu reaction. There are five articles about Karnataka itself; all shamelessly slanted. You cannot try editing them to bring in a balanced view either. They gang up against you and block you. It is good enough to invite sedition procedures against these anti-India propaganda experts from Kerala. It might be that each article brings in more donations from credulous folks abroad.

    Ironic though, that it has finally fallen to a foreigner like Gautier to tell some of the truth!
    http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/story.aspx?artid=oqi6n5w6kGE=&Title=What+made+Hindus+angry+in+Karnataka&SectionID=XVSZ2Fy6Gzo=&MainSectionID=XVSZ2Fy6Gzo=&SEO=NEW+LIFE&SectionName=m3GntEw72ik=

    Reema: Welcome to my blog! So u wish to say the misbehavior reported in papers is wrong or are the BD workers justified? I think you have not got the point of my post. See u around.

  34. I suggest that reports about anti-Christian action in India should be taken with a pinch of salt. There is a conspiracy afoot to o make anything into anti-Christian violence and publicise it so that the credulous donors from abroad might donate more. The >200000 reports about the 116000 Converts in Khandmal is indicative of this.

    As for injustice to women, read about Sr. Abhaya and Sr. Anoopa of Kerala, both Catholic nuns. One was raped and killed; and hrown into the Convent’s well by priests. The other reportedly committed suicide as she was unable to stand sexual exploitation by the Sister Superior of her convent. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sister_Abhaya_murder_case

    http://www.deccanherald.com/Content/Aug132008/national2008081384345.asp

    If the propagandists can lie about rapes, what else would they not lie about?

    Reema: For the incident I have mentioned in my post, I’m fully confident of the truth behind the news as it happened in my own city and which is not some metro.

  35. I know, Reema, that conversion and re-conversion are not the point in your post. But allow me to say a few things.

    Being an Italian from Rome and being my mother very religious, I was raised as a sincere Christian Catholic but left this religion at 13 and gradually became an agnostic, one who doesn’t know and doesn’t care. I am 60 now, and I consider most of today’s religions contrary to reason and science. But this is only me.

    One should never justify violence to people and to women, I think we all agree on this. There are other ways of settling things. Although I can understand why many Hindus are worried because of this habit of Islam & Christianity to convert. It is a mania they have (both religions being similar after all): they think man is sinful and they possess their unique way to salvation of man and to Paradise, so they are naturally-born proselytisers and converters, no matter the means. Within their belief it is understandable and mostly they are sincere. Outside of it, it is unacceptable.

    Religion is not only a set of beliefs in my view. It is also an important part of one’s culture and civilization. So why the hell you Indians who are also Hindu should be converted to Islam or to Christianity because these guys think you must be SAVED? There is not only physical violence (which is wrong in any way). There is also cultural violence (which is also wrong in any way). Why should you lose such great part of your heritage?

    It has happened to us as well 2000 years ago. We Italians were not Christians and the Greco-Roman world was highly civilised LONG before Christianity arrived. And Christ was from the Middle-East, not from Rome or Greece. They have converted us to Christianity while we were polytheistic, non fanatics, open-minded and adored Juppiter, Venus, Apollo etc. In this way we have lost part of our heritage, it is hard to deny.

    So this is why I agree with you Reema when you say:

    “I think at some points some religions are wrong in asking their followers to gather more men into their religion i.e. to convert them.”

    Yes, they are really wrong. No matter what their intentions, I’ll say it again, it is cultural violence.

    My point is that religions should be preserved (thru mutual respect) and not disappear. They are part of humankind’s cultural richness, exactly like species are part of our planet’s richness.

    As far as myself, let me enjoy all religions’ diverse cultural flavour, which is intense and fascinating, but basically let me to stay away from them 😉

    Regards

    Man of Roma

    Reema: Thank you for your wonderful views. I liked your comment. Calm and balanced.

  36. Your taking it as violence against Christians is wrong. It could have happened to any woman thanks to any uncivilised element in the society. Indian women in the North East dare not wear sarees, put on bindis, or celebrate any Hindu festival. But we do not have lakhs of net sites blowing it all up.
    As I said earlier, anything is blown up into ‘anti-Christian’ stuff by a concentrated group of propagandists. And their motive is only donations from the West; not religious freedom.

    Reema: If you read my post carefully, my point is disrespect against women which were Christians by chance in this case. Please do no misinterpret meaning of my post.

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